If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
[The following post is not your typical Ms. Informed entry.]
So I posted about that Thomas Beatie and his wife Nancy. Then, faithful reader Ashlei wrote in saying he did not, contrary to what I believed, have gender reassignment surgery. So, if that is the case, he does NOT have male reproductive organs and still has female reproductive organs. If he does NOT have a penis…how is he, considered a he? And how is he legally married in the state of Oregon? How are they any different from a lesbian couple in which one partner choose to be artificially inseminated? If they are legally recognized as man and wife, what does this say for other same-gender couples who want to be married? I’m sorry, but taking testosterone and removing your breasts does NOT make you a woman. You may feel like a man and consider yourSELF a man, but biologically and legally, you are not.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great they are having a child and really do what you want, you’re not hurting anyone else (except maybe your child but that’s another story…). But HOW is this a pregnant MAN? How? It’s not. Sorry Oprah.
I may be missing something. I may be wrong here. If ANYONE can answer my questions or has anything to offer to this discussion I IMPLORE you to comment, email, whatever. I just want some answers.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I totally agree with you here. I don’t understand how they are legally married in Oregon. And I’m going to be rather harsh here, but I do not think it’s great they are having a child. These people should not reproduce. Seriously. I encourage their future child to look up who the sperm donor is and beg him to be his/her real dad. Yes I’m harsh. But honestly people, honestly. I think heshe wanted to write a book and make money. All publicity. Thats what I think
April 4th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Ya know, I do agree with you Lauren. I don’t necessarily think it’s great what they are doing in the sense that more people should do it, its a great thing, but I guess my stance is really, you aren’t affecting me so do whatever you want with your life and your body. But it will, without a doubt, have reprucussions on this child, which she will not deserve. If I were a gay man or a lesbian however, this totally would affect me and then maybe I’d be more against it than I am. Now, I’m pretty indifferent.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
How are all those hormones going to affect this baby? I know heshe stopped taking them before getting pregnant but there has still got to be some side effects. Seriously this shouldn’t be in the news it should be a side show.
And why didn’t the wife just get pregnant instead of turning their life into a media circus? I’m shocked that he is legally considered a man. What I’m not shocked about is the fact they have a book deal in the works, selfish couple trying to turn this into a millionaire dollars.
I’m with Lauren and Ms.Informed on this one.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I have to agree with all of you. I don’t get how this guy is considered a man and how they are legally married. Not that I don’t think they should be allowed to get married, but according to the law – they shouldn’t. Maybe the law is wrong but it’s still the law. This is just a woman on testosterone pregnant with a man’s child. The whole thing seems really weird to me. I feel bad for the baby whose going to be born into this greedy freak show. If you want to be pregnant, fine. If you want to be a man, fine. But you shouldn’t be allowed to have both. Especially if you’re doing it for the publicity. Come on, there is a line, and I think they’ve grossed it.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
What I heard on the news (I forget which station) was that he decided to carry the child because his wife was unable to concieve. Okay. But I think that’s a good point about his hormone treatments… maybe it won’t have any effect on the baby, but if it does have an effect it probably won’t be good.
April 6th, 2008 at 2:23 am
Yeah the woman couldn’t have a baby. And if you watch the episode of Oprah (I did on youtube), I think it explains many of the comments you all brought up on here. The testosterone made the formerly female person’s clitoris enlarge to form what is described as a “small penis” (Oprah asked). And the testosterone apparently doesn’t have an affect on the baby…I have no idea because I am an art major.
I think I’m a little shocked by such negative responses from people. They have the desire to bring a healthy baby into a healthy marriage. I guess my logic makes me think, why are so many people so against this when it isn’t affecting them or hurting anyone. I personally am very close to the lesbian and gay community as a friend and supporter, but do not understand transgender. I’m a firm believer in embracing your gender. But I support people who choose to do it because it is what brings them peace and happiness. Do you think it better that Thomas remain a woman for his life if, hypothetically, maybe that made him depressed, suicidal, or unable to live a fulfilled life. Him choosing to be a him only enhanced his life so why the hell should it matter how much it creeps out someone else…focus on enhancing your own life instead of criticizing his.
And for the people who would say they are only thinking of the child…that’s what many people said about multi-racial couples, gay couples, etc…it’s close minded. No one lives a perfect life, and if these parents are willing to try to raise a healthy and happy child that will bring they joy and hopefully bring joy to it…then more power to them. In a world where so many children are concieved by accident and raised as such…its nice to see people have the desire to be parents and are making it happen.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:39 am
Ya know, I am just so intrigued by this story. I really love people. I do. And think everyone has a right to live however they want, but I am very opinionated on where I stand about it. It’s funny because I was talking my husband about this, and I was like, “Do I sound intolerant?” And he said, “Yes, but is it a bad thing to be intolerant of WRONG?” Kind of made me chuckle, and some would probably bawlk at such a remark and think we’re passing judgement… which I’m not really, I’ll leave to the Big Man himself. But here’s my question for Ashlei… what about people who are just naturally attracted to children? Some people this is a real urge that they fight every day, and may lead them to depression, suicide, etc. What if we just let them act on their urges? I know I’m probably sparking lots of argument here… but different opinions make things interesting.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I agree! I like where this is going and to hear the responses. And I think its fine to have our own judgements and opinions…like you said, it is the higher powers place to really sort it out.To answer your question, I think that would be absolutely wrong. I like to stick to the basics. Morals, for me, are simple. I feel very strongly that if something someone is doing is not directly harming other or themselves, then (generally) they are morally okay. If something someone is doing harms anyone else, regardless of how they feel or what they feel about it, it is wrong. As in, a person attracted to children, no matter how natural it feels to them, is wrong because it harms the child. A person choosing to live as a man and have a committed relationship with a woman is not harming anyone (offending many, actually directly harming anyone? no way). Or another example…someone who is racist: they believe what they are doing is right, but their opinion harms an entire race of people…so I think they are wrong. That’s just how it works in my head. I know I’m not right about everything either. But I feel very strongly against discriminating against someone for any other reason except that they might be harming another individual…if what they are doing isn’t hurting anybody, then as freaked out as I may be by it…I think they have the right to go ahead.
April 7th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I like to think I’m open-minded when it comes to letting others live their own life the way they see fit. But in this instance, although they are not hurting me, and I no one can do anything to stop them, I don’t think it should have happened. If you are “transgendered” you are born believing that you were born in the wrong body, according to many people who are transgendered. If you feel like you are man in a woman’s body and you go the lengths of taking hormone treatments, changing your physical appearance and legally changing your sex to be a male. Then that is life you have chosen. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that part. But when you include a child in the mix and the man is the one carrying this baby I believe that’s where the line has been crossed. I know men can have the same desire as a woman to have a biological child, but I do not believe they have the desire to give birth to a child. Men can not carry children and if he decides he wants to then he should no longer be considered a man legally. And to say it isn’t hurting anyone is true of the people leaving comments here, but this has major potential to hurt that baby. Maybe the hormones will be fine, maybe it’s been researched that that baby has the same chances as any other baby of being healthy, and of course I hope it is. But the emotional things this kid is going to have to deal with have great potential to hurt him or her. Kids are brutal, adults are brutal, and they are not doing anything to hide this story. They are going on Oprah, it’s all over the news, and they are writing a book. There’s not a chance in hell, in my opinion, that this kid is not going to be taunted and teased in horrible ways. There are other ways, they could have adopted or had a surrogate carry the child. If you want to be a man then fine, but you can’t be a man “sometimes.”
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:33 am
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.